March 30, 2007
ENG213 students, please complete this before 10pm Tuesday:
Think back on Friday’s class activity about the ancient sources of information on the Trojan War. Now read these two modern interpretations:
Did reading these piece help you to better understand the Trojan War? What are you still confused about? Why do you think the Trojan War is such a well-known story? How do you think Odysseus’s experiences in the Trojan War will influence his actions in The Odyssey?
March 30th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
These sources definitely helped me understand the “history” of the Trojan War. The first article was a little overwhelming and it got confusing because there were so many people mentioned. I liked the second article because it introduced me to Odysseus. He is portrayed to be a very intelligent man who serves the Greeks well during the war with his logic and trickery. I guess I’m a little confused but curious as to how the warriors get lost in the Odyssey. Since Odysseus is supposed to be so smart, he will be a key part of getting the troops out of trouble and getting them home. The second source said that he constantly stood apart from the rest of the Greeks, so he must be looked upon highly. This means he’s likely to be depended on, rather than just another soldier volunteering ideas.
March 31st, 2007 at 1:31 pm
These sources were definitely much easier to understand than the pieces we read in class. However, I am still very confused. I don’t know who anybody is, and all the random names are getting really confused. Is this all even real? I can’t keep track which is real and which is legend. The stories keep mixing up the gods and the people. For example, the first excerpt says, “Once more the Greek heroes who are still capable of taking part in the fight, especially the two Ajaxes and Idomeneus, succeed with the help of Poseidon in repelling the Trojans, while Telamonian Ajax dashes Hector to the ground with a stone.” They talk about the gods as if they were actually real. So far I’ve managed to understand that Odysseus was definitely a hero in this story, and is very well remembered.
April 1st, 2007 at 10:46 am
These sources helped me out a lot with the background of the war. I just don’t really understand why this is still such a huge topic. It seems so rediculous to be reading books about Greek Gods that we don’t even think were alive much yet people. I’ve started reading the book, and it’s really confussing, and I feel though that I’m not really understanding everything and picking up on the language. The Trojan War defienlty happened because as we’ve read, we can see that remains have been found. I just don’t understand why we believe or people believe in such a myth.
April 1st, 2007 at 5:47 pm
These sources certainly helped me understand more about the history behind the Trojan war. I agree with Kristina in that the first one got very overwhelming with the different characters and all the mythology (yuk!), but the second one provided some very useful insight to Odysseus. I’m still confused about the exact causes of the Trojan war, and where people (or gods?) fit in. After reading these sources, I can tell that Odysseus will probably be portrayed as a hero in this book, or someone of great ability/accomplishment. I think the Trojan War is such a well known story because of the mysteriousness surrounding it, and the heroism portrayed in Odysseus. Ancient Greek events such as this receive lots of attention anyway, just because of how radically different their beliefs were compared to the ones of today.
April 2nd, 2007 at 2:38 pm
After reading both of the sources, I feel very overwelmed from the material that was presented to me. However, the two articles did help me understand the beliefs about the Trojan War, but i’m still not to postive in what exactly happend. Like fellow classmates stated before me, the two articles introduce a lot of new characters (gods, humans, etc) that I honestly can’t keep up with. I also agree with scott because im still not sure weather these stories of great heros are real or legend. I liked how the articles related to both books written by Homer, and showed their revelence to the Trojan War. But im still very puzzled as to how these characters fit in with eachother, and why the Trojan War is displayed in the way it is. Hopefully, after completeing the reading of the Odssey, I will have a better understanding of the history of the Trojan War.
April 2nd, 2007 at 2:54 pm
The sources that i read were very interesting. They helped me understand much more about what happened in the war and the introduction to the Odyssey. As well, i like the introduction and explanation of Odysseus and what his importance was in the war. These sources also helped my clarification of the book and characters.
April 2nd, 2007 at 4:18 pm
After reading these two articles, i definitely feel like i understand the whole story behind the Trojan War. I think what really did it for me was that i was actually able to understand what was being said, unlike what we read during class. What i still have a hard time understanding, is like mel said, all of the people! “Next to him the most prominent Greek heroes are his brother Menelaus, Achilles and Patroclus, two unrelated men named Ajax, Teucer, Nestor and his son Antilochus, Odysseus, Diomedes, Idomeneus, and Philoctetes…” the majority of these articles were just spitting out names with little or no background info. I also still dont really understand why the war started in the first place, i mean the reasons given in the first article just seem so stupid. I think the Trojan War is such a well-known story because the events that took place around it and the ones that were associated with it are almost too far-fetched, which is what makes the story so interesting. From these articles i can tell that Odysseus is the hero type and “is rightfully respected as one of the greatest of the Greeks at Troy.” It was said that in The iliad he failed to live up to his reputation, and i now think that in The Odyssey, he will work to regain the people’s respect.
April 2nd, 2007 at 9:10 pm
Reading these pieces did help me to better understand the Trojan War. A lot of the war was explained in class, and I also knew more about the war from other educational experiences, but I was still able to learn new things and, ultimately, learn more about the war itself. The Trojan War Summary mentioned something that Homer did not touch on in Iliad. At one point, Agamemnon agreed to sacrifice his own daughter to appease the angry gods. Now, this is not the most important thing that I learned when reading the Trojan War Summary, but it demonstrates that sacrificing a family member to the gods means a lot. It must be because sacrificing something or someone you care about is more meaningful than, let’s say, sacrificing one hundred animals. I also read something else that interested me.
The armies are standing opposed to one another, prepared for fight, when they agree to a treaty that the whole conflict will be decided by a duel between Paris and Menelaus. Paris is overcome in the duel, and is only rescued from death by the intervention of Aphrodite. When Agamemnon presses for the fulfillment of the treaty, the Trojan Pandarus breaks the peace by shooting an arrow at Menelaus, and the agreement falls apart. (Trojan War Summary)
This is an interesting detail. The Greeks and the Trojans agreed to decide the entire conflict be having a duel between Paris and Menelaus. The winner would determine the winning army. But Aphrodite intervened when Paris was nearing death, and when Agamemnon proposed to fulfill the treaty Pandarus broke the piece with an arrow.
I am still confused about what happened to Helen. We talked about it in class, but neither of the documents fully explained the whereabouts of Helen by the end of the Trojan war. So, it becomes hard to believe what was talked about in class if the two documents I just read did not mention that Helen was in Africa the entire time. Actually, the Trojan War Summary started off by talking about the disappearance of Helen and when the other went off on his (necessary) tangents about the war, he seemed to have forgotten to explain what had happened to Helen, the reason for the war.
I cannot be sure why the Trojan War is such a well known story. But I think the story of the Trojan War is so well-known because it demonstrates the ways in which society worked back then. When there was a feud between two people, it was taken to the battlefield. It is a clear demonstration of humans’ emotional insecurities. Throughout history, people have blown things out of proportion. I don’t remember where I heard this from, but I read or someone once said something like, “People cause bigger issues to solve smaller ones.”
Odysseus’ experiences in the Trojan War will influence other things in the Odyssey besides his actions. In the Trojan War, Odysseus fought hard when he was alone, but when he needed help it came to him. There were times when he fended off the enemy alone on the battlefield and when he needed help the most his companions would conveniently join him by his side. This is already seen in the sections we have read in The Odyssey. Odysseus has been at sea for nearly five years and his son is putting together a crew and going out in search of him. His son’s action could eventually become the reason he is able to return home. Also, Odysseus’ determination in the Trojan War will probably reflect itself in The Odyssey.
April 3rd, 2007 at 10:00 am
These articles where helpful for my understanding of the events leading to the Odyssey and the story of Odysseus. The first article had so much information in it about the different characters of the Trojan, and it gives information without expalaining how it came to be. For example, the sentence, “Agamemnon had already received an oracle from Delphi that Troy would fall when the best of the Greeks quarreled,” doesn’t make much sense to me. How does an oracle work, and how can it predict the outcomes of a war? I also don’t understand how the the Trojan war could have actually happened, if outrageous things in Greece could have happened. “The Greeks have taken many war prizes from the surrounding countryside. One of these prizes happens to be Chryseis, the daughter of Chryses, a priest of Apollo;” I was confused while reading about these, “war prizes.” The first article describes the events during the war in- depth, which was helpful, but it didn’t properly introduce the opposing families. There was a clear explanation of the significance of the Trojan horse, but there should be a visual of the statue so that the reader can see what the Trojans saw when they first found the horse. I can connect the Odyssey to the Iliad now that I know how the Trojan War ended. The ending could have been more elaborated about what happened to Odysseus during and after the Trojan War, since Odysseus is the main character of The Odyssey.
April 3rd, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Wow. these pieces of writing about the Trojan War helped clairify my understanding of what is finally going on. These articles that I did not pay much attention to before answered all my questions regarding the book. Mr. Wasserman keep this up! so whenever I am lost I have relaible backround notes to use. I really like the idea of how you are giving us this backround information about the story before we begin getting into depth with it.
April 3rd, 2007 at 3:12 pm
These two articles definitely helped me to understand the story and history of the Trojan War better. Of course it is still hard to comprehend and follow everything because of all of those random and long names that I don’t know. Some people have said that they don’t know why we’re studying this or why the gods are represented as humans. Although I don’t think we could really say whether or not it actually occurred, the Trojan War is a very significant part of ancient mythology and the very early European nations. I could even see this whole concept of mythology and the gods as the driving force behind so many nations, in their actions and cultures. Odysseus was on the victorious side of the war, and “however much he helped the Greeks in battle, tenfold he helped the Greeks and himself with his cunning” (Odysseus). I think that this will affect him in the story to come because he will be a determined and formidable character.
April 3rd, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Thanks for giving these articles since i can tell many people agree that they were very helpful. I can also see another problem that many students including myself are having, which is trying to differentiate between the Gods and the actual men of the story. I think that not only is it hard to remember all these characters but also their names do not help. However, I do believe that reading the Odyssey is going to take time to get used to. So once we all get used to it we will do fairly well. Also, I liked the point that Scott made saying that why do we waist our time reading such old thing. I do agree with the fact that they are old and that we could be reading modern pieces of literature, but books like the Odyssey do teach us about life and people of the past which is something that is important to know. As for Odysseus he is obviously the most important character since the book was named after him. After reading these helpful summaries, I can tell that basically the whole book is going to revolve around Odysseus, which his journey is going to be very exciting since he is dying to get home and he will do anything to get home. With this brief information in my hands I will keep trying to get used to the Odyssey with hopes of a successful venture.
April 3rd, 2007 at 6:23 pm
The articles helped me understand the backround of the Trojan War with out a doubt. They also allowed me to better understand the introduction to the Odyssey. The book is more clear and its flows much more smoothely. I found the second article to be much more helpful because it introduced us to Odysseus who is portrayed as a strong intelligent man. “Though he is known for his cleverness, Odysseus demonstrates that he is a great fighter on the plains of Troy.” He seems to be looked upon by the other soldiers and is superior to them although they mention he is no Achilles. The first article helped a little bit but I found it to be a little confusing at times when it mentioned more names that I didn’t recognize.
April 3rd, 2007 at 6:46 pm
Reading these pieces helped me better understand the Trojan War. Keeping track of the names confuses me. I think the Trojan War is a well known story because the idea of winning a war unconventionally but thoughtfully makes people want to lean more about the war. I think that Odysseus’s experiences in the Trogan War will influence his actions in The Odyssey by keeping an attitude not to give up even when times get rough.
April 3rd, 2007 at 9:59 pm
The articles helped me to understand what was going on in the trojan war a lot more than what was said in class. I understand now the general concept of what happened a lot more, but i am still sortof getting all of the names confused. I think i have the main people down, so i should be okay, but there are so many side characters that ut is hard ot remember all of them. The trojan war is probably as well known as it is because it has all of the things that people like to hear about in it: violence, romance, and drama. Plus, people still dont actually know if is really happened or not, and we are always going to be trying to find out what actually happened. Odysseus’s actions in the Oddessy are a refelction of the strong character and fierce personality that he shows in the war.
April 4th, 2007 at 6:21 am
These sources were much more useful than the class readings we received. Because they were so much more understandable it was easier to figure out what was going on. I now am better able to associate the people with their actions, rather than just being confused and seeing a name pop up once in a while. I understand the main points of what happened in the Trojan War now.
April 4th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
The sources that we read in class were definitely harder to read than these pieces. I originally knew some information about the Trojan War, however these pieces of writing definitely helped me understand it better. I agree with Mel that understanding the different people is very hard. Especially since the names are not very easy to remember and easily mixed up. I felt as though the articles didn’t give enough background information about the people and there importance. The articles definitely helped me understand what happened before the Odyssey. Overall, all the different names were confusing but these articles helped much more than the ones we read in class. I think that these articles will help me a long as I continue to read the Odyssey.
April 4th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
one thing I hate about all this is the family connections and the names. It is really hard to follow who did what. My question is, why this story exist. These sources helped me understand more about what happened, but it is still hard to follow.
One thing interesting bout the Odessey is that it is one of the worst books to read and interpret, but it is a great story to listen to.
April 4th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
I agree with Kristina and friends that the material that was given was overwhelming and filled with information about the trojan war. These were very good reading though because it helped my understanding of the Trojan war because i didn’t know anything about it before. The first arcticle was filled with A LOT of names and i was kind of getting confused while i was reading. The second article appealed to me much more because it mentioned Odysseus, a familiar name to me. I believe the trojan war is such a well-known story because it is very interesting and a great tale to pass down through generations. I believe that Odysseus’ actions in the Trojan War will make him very strong and brave-hearted through out the Odyssey because he will be faced with many problems and I believe he will be able to overcome them and get back home.
April 4th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
Reading these pieces greatly increased my understanding of the Trojan war. I have been very confused about the actual causes of the war, so reading “Trojan War Summary” cleared up a lot of questions I had. I found the second piece interesting because so far in the Odyssey, there hasn’t been much information about Odysseus’ role in the Trojan war, so from that I learned about the contributions he made. I’m still confused about the murder of Agamenon and what actually happened there, so I’m hoping to find out some more about that episode.
April 4th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Okay, so after reading these pieces I felt a little bit more clarified as to the actual events of the Trojan War. I still however, feel confused. I think the simplest and best way to understand it would be to get a simple, 4th grade comprehension level time line of events and causes and then as our understanding increases move on to denser texts. It is a very interesting story/legend. I feel like it would take me a very long time of thorough examining to understand it perfectly.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
I agree with Melody that these modern articles were more so helpful than those that are older. However, it is still really hard to keep track of those who fought in the war, and who killed who. This whole Trojan War deal is rather confusing, and very much puzzling. Despite this confusion, I find the Trojan War to be an incredibly intriguing event. I especially enjoy the fact that this complex and epic event may have never occurred. I feel as is though we should all research this event and go more in depth with it. After all, we must not neglect the past.
April 8th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
I tried to leave this commment a while ago but I guess it didn’t go through…the two articles on the site about the Trojan war are very interesting and definitely cleared up any confusion I had about the war. I can see that Odysseus left a huge impact on that time period and affected the war itself significantly. It was very intersting that one of the articles said that he didn’t actually kill any men himself, he only devised plans and strategized as to how his side could defeat the other army. I no longer have any specific questions about the war, but I guess I don’t totally understand evyer battle that went on and every exact thing that occurred. The articles definitely helped though.
April 8th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Anna, yours might’ve been one of the anonymous comments that my spam filter caught, took out back, and destroyed. Sorry for any inconvenience.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:02 am
These sources were a bit more simple to understand but I still think the story of the Trojan War it self is pretty confusing. I’ll be reading along and then all of a sudden, these articles start name dropping and bringing up all these new places and then I might as well just go back to the beginning. Is it really necessary to take every name to memory? And is there proof that these people existed or are they based on assumptions? I guess I’m having some trouble distinguishing between what is fact and what is fiction, but The Odyssey itself doesn’t seem half as difficult to follow along with.
April 10th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Wasserman, It’s me, the other Anna. And my blog has not been working, but someone helped me get it to work in school.
These two articles definetely helped me in understanding the Trojan War more clearly. The first article was useful in some aspects, but since I am not very familiar with all the names, it got a little confusing. Since there are so many different names it makes it difficult to distinguish between the God’s and the regular people. I really was able to understand how heroic Odysseus was, and what a large role he played in the Trojan War. Although I need to do a lot more reading to understand exactly what occurred, and what happened in each of the battles, I now have a better understanding of the overall event. Which will help in the reading of the Odyssey, becuase everything will make more sense having read about it before hand.